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Showing posts with label gifts of the Spirit. Show all posts
Showing posts with label gifts of the Spirit. Show all posts

Friday

The use of the gifts in a Revival meeting

The use of the gifts in a Revival meeting

Is it a biblical practice?

Is the decently and in order use of the gifts of the spirit as used by the Revival churches a correct interpretation of how things were intended to be? What does the bible mean by two at the most three*? It sounds like more of a recommendation than a commandment to me. Does it anger God if the gift is used only once or four times? If this is the Holy Spirit speaking, then who is Paul or anyone else to place a controlled restriction on it?

*Interestingly, in the other instances of the use of the number phrase 'two or three' (Matt 18:20 two or three are gathered - John 2:6 two or three firkins) the addition of the second number calls attention to the fact that the first number is not meant to be an exact sum.

It goes like this: One stands up and speaks in an unknown tongue, another stands up and explains what the other just said. They conclude God had something to say, and communicated it this way. Logic asks then, "Why did God have to speak gibberish, then raise someone up to speak intelligently, when all the while He is supposed to be using the pastor to speak to the congregation in the first place?"

Tongues as a prayer language:

We were lead to believe that God gives the gift of tongues so we can pray more effectively but where does it say He has to pray through us in an unknown tongue?

Romans 8:26 reads, "Likewise the Spirit also helps with our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered." Observe closely here, "cannot be uttered" Whether in English, or some supposed mysterious language given by God, it says plainly - cannot be uttered.

Tongues to enable witnessing (yes, already covered well in another thread)

Jesus made it clear in Acts 1:8 that the Holy Spirit would enable followers to be witnesses for Him. We read immediately in the second chapter that this is what happened. People were gathered from different regions of the Mediterranean world and spoke many different languages. Yet afterwards, they heard them speak in their own native language! Galileans speaking miraculously as Parathions, Medes, Elamites, Mesopotamian, Cretes, Arabians, Egyptians, ... the wonderful works of God. (Acts 2:8-11) The original intent of the language gift was to maximize the efficiency of transmitting the Gospel message.

Context means everything when defining a concept, and the context of the phenomena of 'unknown tongues' here is plainly to communicate the Gospel in a simple, communicative, understandable language to the listeners that surrounded them. Acts 2:6 tells us that they heard them speak in their own language. They didn't hear words they couldn't understand, but benefited by hearing the gospel in their own dialect.

Tongues of angels and men

I've mention recently that the term angels can simply refer to anyone sending a message as the word 'angel' means messenger, but let's unpack it a bit further.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men or angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."

Should we read a prayer language into this? Is this the subject Paul was emphasizing? No, he's saying how important is is to be lead by love no matter how blessed with gifts one is. Without love it's meaningless. He is exaggerating to prove a point. Isn't that obvious? He does it again in Galatians 1:8, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." In other words he's saying: "Sheesh, I don't care if an angel drops down from heaven, don't listen to them if it isn't what I've told you". It's a hypothetical exaggeration here, to make it obvious to the reader, hardly a place to base a doctrine for a prayer language! Some then quote 1 Cor 14 but the entire emphasis of that chapter is in the gift of prophecy where all can be edified by understanding clearly what the speaker or the person praying publicly is saying!

Thought... Why does a prophesy sound exactly like an interpretation?

In verse one he asks us to desire the gifts but most importantly - prophesy. The Greek meaning of prophesy is to both foretell and forthtell, or to preach understandably. The word is propheuo and means to declare truth whether through prediction or not. In verse 5 Paul wishes that they all spoke with tongues. Why? They would be more useful if they all had the ability to cross language barriers. But he prefers that they prophesy unless there is an interpreter. Now this leads to the next question...

It's all right to speak in tongues if there is an interpretation!

First of all, that's not the emphasis here, secondly, what kind of language was being interpreted?

Let's use our imagination here for a sec. Suppose you've been given a 'language' gift from the Lord and you use it in the meeting. Only one problem, no one understands what you just prayed including you! (verse 14) My spirit (i.e. my inward sincerity) was there, but who knows what I said! Over and over again Paul places the emphasis on communicating that all may understand in this chapter. He even uses musical instruments as an analogy.

In verses 27 and 28 Paul states that speaking in tongues is permissible if we have two, and at the most three speak in this fashion. Then, and only then, if one interprets. Let's use our imagination again, eh? The assembly has gathered, and the pastor moves to the pulpit and lo and behold, he's carrying the original Hebrew text! Someone says afterward: "Wow! We heard a message from Hebrew! He sure is gifted having the ability to read the original Hebrew! We sure are blessed, I enjoyed hearing the Hebrew read today in our meeting." The other would respond: "Yeah, but I wonder what he said?" Sound far-fetched? The Roman Catholics have read sermons in Latin for years! Paul is telling them, if you do use a different language, explain it that all understand.

Tongues was explained at pentecost as a gift given to clearly communicate the Gospel in a language that all could understand. It's the same Greek word "glossa" throughout the New Testament and yes, even in 1 Corinthians where Paul found the most problems. Being the same Greek word, why should anyone change the meaning to the way it is being practiced by Revival and their ilk?

  • Where do they get off implying that all who don't practice tongues are on their way to hell?
  • Where do they get the revelation to say that one church is better than the other because one practices tongues and the other doesn't?

Not from the bible.

and some more...

A little bit of logic unravels the whole 'gifts' ritual very quickly. ie. The two or three tongue messages TO the Lord are interpreted as messages FROM the Lord. The interpretations are completely similar to the two or three prophesies that come afterward... and are not prophetic at all.

Many Revivalists claim the miracle of the gifts because the one they were about to blurt out had a similar message to the one that got in first. This isn't surprising considering everyone in the community has been listening to the same talks, and talking in the same circles... not to mention the mathematical coincidence effect that there are only so many topics commonly used and that every now and again someone is going to beat you to the punch with a similar message.

Tuesday

The truth about speaking in tongues

By KARAN MINNIS, Guardian Staff Reporter
karan@nasguard.com

Although outlined by scripture and ordained as a gift by God, speaking in tongues, also known as "glossolalia," a now popular practice within the Christian community, is currently becoming so common that persons are wondering if the blessing truly exists.

This phenomenon, which can be traced to the days of the Apostles, was once usually encountered in Pentecostal Churches, revival meetings, Quaker gatherings and some Methodist groups. However, today, glossolalia is also found in some Roman Catholic and Protestant Churches, and can be considered one of the most talked about phenomenas in Christianity as many people around the world are developing their "given gifts."

And according to Archdeacon Keith Cartwright of St Christopher's Anglican Church in Lyford Cay, the gift of speaking in tongues is a true gift from God that should not be abused or misused.
Explaining that those who receive the gift will always have an interpreter, Archdeacon Cartwright said that "it's no use speaking in tongues if there is not an interpreter, who will be able to translate and repeat what the person is saying.

"The other thing that is most important is that we must emphasize that speaking in tongues is a gift and not everyone has that gift. In fact most people don't. And so what we have to do is, recognize that most people who are believers, those people who practice their Christianity, aren't able to speak in tongues. However, that doesn't mean they don't have any other spiritual gifts."

The Anglican priest said that he has found that some people that do have the gift, have an attitude that it is special, and assume that others are not as special as they are. But he said that they shouldn't.

"People must realize that speaking in tongues is not any more special of a gift than someone who can organize the keeping of the church's yard, or someone who can arrange flowers in the church," the archdeacon said. "Everybody is given certain gifts and that's what I really want people to understand."

In the New Testament, the book of Acts recounts how "tongues of fire" descended upon the heads of the Apostles, accompanied by the miraculous occurrence of speaking in languages unknown to them, but recognizable to others present as their own native language. This phenomenon is variously interpreted either as religious xenoglossia, the speaking of an actual foreign language, or as the gift of interpretation being given to those present: the ability to understand the tongues, each person in his own language.

Some of the Orthodox hymns sung at the Feast of Pentecost, which commemorates this event in Acts, describe it as a reversal of what happened at the Tower of Babel as described in Genesis 11. In other words, the languages of humanity were differentiated at the Tower of Babel leading to confusion, but were reunited at Pentecost, resulting in the immediate proclamation of the Gospel to people who were gathered in Jerusalem from many different countries.

Also in the New Testament some scholars say Paul describes the experience as speaking in an "unknown tongue." Some also say that there are many who believe that all believers have the ability to speak in tongues (Mark 16:16-17) as a form of prayer, based on 1 Corinthians 14:14, Eph 6:18 and Jude 20. However, while occurrences of glossolalia are widespread and well documented, there is considerable debate within religious communities, principally Christian, as to both its status and the extent to which glossolalic utterances can be considered to form language. People are also said to debate its source, in terms of whether glossolalia is a natural, supernatural, or spiritual phenomenon.

According to Rev. Ulric Smith of Zion Baptist Church Shirley Street, the Baptist faith believes in every gift that the Bible declares.

"For us, speaking in tongues is listed as one of the gifts that we recognize," he said. "When I say we, I mean our brand of Baptist.

"Baptist can be found in varying contexts, as they may vary on certain matters of dogma, but not the essentials of Christianity. For example the worship expressions may vary. However, for us, we are not at grievance with speaking in tongues, as we view it as an operation for the Holy Spirit."

Highlighting 1 Cor. 12, Rev. Smith said that when used in corporate worship glossolalia is suppose to be edifying.

The Baptist minister puts it this way: "If it is something that is voiced in such as way that it is drawing the attention of the entire community of faith, not just used by people in their personal prayer, I am referring to if it is done in a way that is calling the entire community of faith, then they will be accompanied by an interrupter to edify."

Stating that this gift has been expressed throughout his church amongst leadership and membership, Rev Smith said that there have been some persons who have been turned off by the gift because of the way it is exercised.

"However, I have found that there is nothing wrong with the gift, but the problem may be in the person's way of exercising the gift that may be the problem," he said.

It is said that some Christians practice glossolalia as a part of their private devotions and that some sections of Christianity also accept and sometimes promote the use of glossolalia within corporate worship. This is particularly true within the Pentecostal and Charismatic traditions, as both Pentecostals and Charismatics believe that the ability to speak in tongues, and sometimes the utterance itself, is a supernatural gift from God.

Adding that the gift of tongues is available to all believers, Apostle Lee Watson of Trinity Assembly 'City of Praise,' said that the gift is just what it is, a "gift."

"According to the scripture, all those who received baptism in the Holy Spirit they spoke with other tongue, with the Spirit of the apostle," she said. "And so we believe that everyone can be blessed with the gift, however, not everyone is. It is a gift and Jesus is the distributor, so everybody can be blessed with such a gift. He [Jesus] says that in the last days I will pour my spirit upon all flesh, and so the gift of the Holy Spirit is for everybody."

Calling it a doorway to receiving the other eight gifts of the Holy Spirit, which are wisdom, knowledge, faith, gifts of healing, working of miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, and the interpretation of tongues, Apostle Lee said that when a person is filled with the Holy Ghost they will speak with God and speak in tongues.

Acknowledging that there are some who do not believe in the gift, she said, "I'm not going to argue with them, but if they receive him [Jesus], if they receive the gift of tongues they will see."

It is said that Christians who practice glossolalia typically describe their experience as a regular and even mundane aspect of private prayer that tends to be associated with calm and pleasant emotions. However, this is in contrast to the perception of glossolalia amongst Christians who witness but do not practice glossolalia, and those who have no experience of glossolalia at all.