Do 'tongues' equal the 'Rest' of Isaiah 28?

For a more detailed

1) The Rest: God spoke of the Rest as something that we absolutely MUST enter. The only scriptural position I could find in response to the ABSOLUTE STATEMENT from GOD was found in Isaiah 28:9-12. This verse placed me in a position where Tongues was the only initial outward evidence to the individual where they could know with scriptural certainty that they had entered this place of Rest. I feel cornered by this statement. If I profess to be in agreement with Hebrews Chapter 4, which emphasises the requirement of entry into the/a Rest. But cannot say amen to "stammering lips and another tongue" where does that leave me.

I thought you said you gave this some study and knew bible history? Let's have a look at the verse: Isa.28:11 "For with another tongue will he speak to this people." As you would know, the Isaiah scripture clearly records the time when the Babylonians came in to destroy and captivate Judah, and by hearing those who spoke in a foreign strange language they would know God's judgement had come. This was the rest and refreshing they were trying to enter but could not because 'they did not hear'... They would not hear. Paul refered to this terrible time in history and reminded his church that the tongues (languages) of the enemy at that terrible time were a sign of their unbelief. Tongues are a sign of God's judgement to unbelievers.

Haven't you and the rest of Revivians ever thought it weird that it says that it's another tongue he will speak to this people. It's not the this people that are actually doing the tongue speaking. It's refering to a normal human language that is different to the native tongue. Amazing how self-centred we can be to imagine that the language we personally speak is the central important one.

1 Corinthians 14 that "tongues are a sign to the unbelievers, tongues are a sign of God's judgment to unbelievers

Isaiah 28:11 "For with another tongue will he speak to this people."

This people were the Jews at Pentecost to authenticate the Gospel they were preaching. When the Northern kingdom were gobsmacked in disbelief they were taken captive by the Assyrians and could not understand the language spoken. Amazing this historical and well known even in Jewish history has been convoluted into the glossalalian theology.

GWM - Why do you think Paul refered to Isaiah 28 when refering to Tongues as a sign to the unbeliever?

Okay... I did cover that but obviously you weren't reading me because I explained what Paul was referrring to when he reminded his church of Isaiah 28... perhaps if I reword it a little for you:

Isa.28:11 "For with another tongue will he speak to this people." - by hearing those who spoke in a foreign strange language they would know God's judgement had come. Paul refered to this terrible time in history and reminded his church that the tongues are a sign of unbelief. Tongues are a sign of God's judgement to unbelievers.

You see, it's all about context. The ones in Isaiah who were speaking in another tongue were the enemy! EEK!!! He wasn't talking about.

See, the funny thing is that Paul was using the story to warn the followers of what would happen if they ignore the gospel message they were preaching. Because he slips in a reference to the enemy using another language, Revivalsists and co slip it into the bag of 'tongues' references.

The following is an excerpt from an exaustive study on the subject, it can be found 'here'.

Okay, given that we'll be touching upon Isaiah 28, I note the remarkable irony of my current situation when I read in the prophet's words (vv. 9 & 10): "Whom will he teach knowledge, and to whom will he explain the message? Those who are weaned from milk, those taken from the breast? For it is precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little." As I hope will become clear, given the current circumstance, that the prophet's words are very ironic indeed! I strongly recommend that you have a Bible handy as you read along with what I've written, so as to follow the flow of the argument that I am attempting to make. So let's hook in!

Is Speaking in Tongues Valid and Biblical Today?

This study suggests that the gift of tongues ceased a long time ago...

In many 'Charismatic' and Pentecostal churches today we see the phenomena of 'speaking in tongues' whereby people are told that when they are very spiritual and are baptized by the Holy Spirit, this is EVIDENCED by being able to 'SPEAK IN TONGUES' which they say is a 'heavenly prayer language which offers praise to the Lord! Anyone who doesn't 'speak in tongues' if left to feel not as 'spiritual' as those who do speak in tongues! Is this true? Are tongues for today and is it a sign or evidence of being baptized by the Holy Spirit? Or are people being seriously MISLEAD? What does the Bible say about tongues and this so-called 'tongues movement'? As we look at tongues in the Bible we see in Acts 2 in the early days of the Church, tongues appeared as one of the 'sign gifts' that the Lord gave to certain people in which they were supernaturally able to speak in known earthly languages without going to school to learn them. They used this ability to speak the gospel to the foreigners who had gathered at Jerusalem during the yearly Passover. The languages are listed in Acts 2:8-12! It is not some 'heavenly' angel language at all! For example, it would be like me being able supernaturally to speak the German language to a German man so I could give the gospel to him so he could take it back to his people. You see, in the early days of Acts, God was trying to get this new 'Gospel' out to the world. There was no completed bible yet, nor any media outlets such as radio, TV, or even newspapers! God used tongues and other of the 'sign gifts' to bring attention to this new program He was starting...the Church! Once the bible began to be completed (around about AD 60), these sign gifts, including TONGUES, were done away with and CEASED. (1 Corinthians 8-10) With this background, we also see that God gave certain guidelines for the use of tongues in those early church days as described in 1 Corinthians 14. Isn't it strange that charismatic groups today don't even follow these guidelines that Paul gave? We learn several things about the gift of tongues from the Bible when it was present and available during the early years of the church. In the church services in that day, an interpreter MUST be present or the tongues person must remain QUIET! (1 Cor. 14:27, 28)…and only 3 at the most could speak during a service and then only one at a time…and women were not to speak in tongues AT ALL! (v. 34) Do those speaking in tongues in churches TODAY follow these guidelines? If not, why not? Paul indeed said in 1 Cor. 14: 39 to forbid not those who had the gift of tongues to use it because when Paul wrote those words around AD 50 tongues was still present! Tongues did cease according to church history, and now have only come ‘back to life’ in the last 100 years when women preachers in the Holiness movement began to claim to have the gift and claimed it was a secret prayer language only angels and God could understand (yet wasn’t Satan an angel??). This can not be backed up in the Bible, for tongues in Acts 2 and 1 Cor. 12-14 were known earthly languages (see Acts 2:8-10)! Tongues was NOT a sign of “SPIRITUALITY” to other believers, but was a sign to unsaved UNBELIEVERS of judgment to come because the Jews had not obeyed God! (1 Cor. 14:22). Read this verse! It clearly says that TONGUES is not a SIGN to other BELIEVERS of one's spirituality, but it is a SIGN to unsaved, unbelieving Jews that Judgment is coming! Charismatics clearly deny this plain Scripture because it is obvious they imply that speaking in tongues is mark of spirituality! I challenge anyone to look at every instance of tongues in the Bible and you will see it is always a sign to people that because they have disobeyed God, judgment is coming! Tongues is found in 5 instances in the Bible and it is always a sign that the Jews had disobeyed God! Tongues would then come as “foreign languages” as a sign of judgment and dispersion would soon come. Study carefully the following 5 examples and you must agree:
(1) Gen. 9:1; 11:4-8 - Here God instructs the people to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. Instead, the people disobey and get involved in Astrology and Occultic worship at Babel and even build a tower for satanic worship. God confounds their languages (sends 'tongues' so to speak) and scatters them throughout the earth. (2) Deut. 28:1-62 -in this passage we see God instructing the people to serve and follow Him. If not he will send foreign armies 'whose TONGUE thou shalt not understand’ (Deut.28:49). This is exactly what happened!
(3) Jeremiah 4:1; 5:3-19 - Here God instructs the people to 'return unto me' (4:1) or He will send foreign language or tongues of enemy nations to scatter and disperse them..a "nation whose LANGUAGE thou knowest not, neither understandest what they say". They were dispersed and taken as slaves to 'serve strangers' in another land! (5:19). This was the Babylonian captivity as told in the Old Testament!
(4) Isaiah 28:10-13 -Here again God warns the people to come back to Him, lest more judgment come and enemy nations speaking with 'stammering lips and another tongue' shall come in judgment and dispersion will follow. We see this did happen and we have the 'lost tribes' of Northern Israel to this day!
(5) Matthew. 11:28, 23:37; 1 Cor. 12-14; Luke 21:24 is the example of tongues in the New Testament. Here Jesus instructs the Jewish nation to go throughout the world preaching the Gospel and making disciples. The Jewish nation as a whole, especially it religious leaders, disobey and even crucify Jesus! Therefore, we see TONGUES in the Book of Acts as a sign of judgment to come to the Jews. Recall in this last example of tongues in the NT, how tongues were spoken and judgment soon came in 70 AD when Roman General Titus destroyed Jerusalem and Israel was scattered as the 12 lost tribes all over the world. Anyone who carefully studies CHURCH HISTORY will have to acknowledge that TONGUES did disappear for 2000 years! Look at the church history books and you will not find examples of people speaking in tongues in the Church! Why? Because this is what the Bible said would happen! In 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 scripture clearly says when 'that which is PERFECT is come, that which is IN PART shall be done away with'. Now, my friend, what is the only perfect thing on this earth today? It is God's Word. Would you agree? When the Bible began to be completed at around the 2nd half of the first century, history testifies that TONGUES did cease! Strangely, tongues did not come back onto the scene until some holiness women preachers, and notably Agnes Osman, began speaking in TONGUES at the turn of this century! And now they claim it was a heavenly 'prayer language' which clearly it WAS NOT in all the examples in the bible before! World-known expert on the occult, Kurt Koch, who had devoted his life to studying the occult and witchcraft, makes the following AMAZING statement about the modern day tongues movement in his book OCCULT ABC p.207: “tongues and the so-called Charismatic Movement are the most dangerous weapons Satan is using against the Christian Camp….” Amazing statement? Consider the following:
(1) The Tongues Movement places ‘EXPERIENCE’ over and above the Bible! If you’ve spoken in tongues…it doesn’t matter what you believe or what the Bible says…to most Charismatics! My friend, the devil can give experiences…(2 Cor 11:13-15; 2 Thess. 2:9-11) and even do miracles!
(2) The Tongues Movement claims to receive visions and tongues messages, which would ‘add to’ the Word of God! If it is not adding to the Bible, why do we need the ‘tongues message’ since we have the Bible in front of us?
(3) The origin and background of the Tongues Movement is saturated with false teaching…as it still is today. The Tongues Movement teaches salvation can be lost; it places women in positions of authority over men and places them as pastors in churches teaching men when the Bible forbids it! (1 Tim. 2:12) It promotes the ecumenical movement and yoking up with pastors and churches that teach false plans of salvation. Charismatic “Tongues” churches are big members of the very Liberal National and World Council of Churches. In the last years WCC meeting prayer was led to the mother goddess “Sophia”!!
(4) It can cause believers without the gift to feel ‘second class’…and has caused many to become discouraged to the point of becoming ‘shipwreck in the faith’ and drop out of church completely…especially if sham and hypocrisy is seen in the ‘leaders’ and those who claim to ‘have the gift’…(1 Tim. 1:19)
(5) It makes tongues speaking the mark of true spirituality, rather than winning lost souls to the Lord! It causes many to miss the true spiritual life and sidetracks people from the main objective of winning lost souls!
(6) The Tongues Movement has lead to indecent activity and even immorality as married women and young girls “roll” in the floor uncontrollably as they are ‘slain in the spirit’, even to the point where “modesty blankets” are needed to cover the ladies! (1 Cor. 13:5)…But most seriously, it can open one up to DEMONIC & OCCULTIC INVOLVEMENT! You’ll notice in 1 Cor. 14:27-34 ones spiritual gift COULD BE CONTROLLED! For someone to be SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT to the point they are unconsciously laying prostate on the floor, to me is OF utmost DANGER if that is not the HOLY SPIRIT doing that! Always in the Bible the Believer had full consciousness and control of himself or herself! There is absolutely NO example of today’s so-called being ‘SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT’ in the Bible except for DEMONIC involvement! We at Gospel Center agree with Kurt Koch’s assessment above and WARN every Christian to STAY AWAY from the modern-day Charismatic Movement no matter how nice and sincere the members of these churches might be! It is wrong. It is dangerous. These folks, we believe, are badly deceived.
(7) TONGUES have left DEVASTATION whenever it has entered a church. A split almost always results with years of work in a Bible-believing church down the drain over night! If you will check one history of Charismatic church in your neighborhood, I challenge you to discover that most were started as a result of a split from a Bible-believing church where heartache and devastation was the result. I dare you to discover most Charismatic churches got their members from another church due to a split the majority of the time, rather than a few believers starting from scratch as most Baptist churches start out! (1 Cor. 1:10) God is not the author of confusion (1 Cor. 14:33) and declares all things be done decently and in order (1 Cor. 14:40)…Two commands which we believe are not followed very closely in most “Tongues” churches today.
We believe it is a shame for Christians to be seeking Spiritual Gifts that are not even available today and neglecting the Spiritual Gift God has given us to use for His Glory! God has given each of us some gift and ability to serve the Lord. We need to get busy using it to serve the Lord instead of seeking something that doesn't exist!